Do women not have the ability to be priest - church hierarchy think not.

The Catholic Church (my church) declared Mary the most important human being of all time. The Catholic Church has put more attention on Mary than any other denomination. I think they have put too much emphasis on Mary and it has caused confusion among Catholics. Instead of revering Mary some Catholics, especially in third and second world countries worship and some even want to put her on the same level as Jesus Christ. But, the same church refuses to ordain women.

God has given women many important roles in history, but man continues to deny her the right to be a priest. The men of the church hierarchy claim they have in the past and continue to deal with the question of ordination of women the same way they approach every other important decision; with prayer, the Bible, Church Tradition and the wisdom of theologians. They claim, “The Church wants to know what God has to say about this, and we believe God does not want women ordained priest.” The words they use seem to tell me they really see themselves as “the church”. PRIDE!

John Paul II, whom I love and respect, said: "Wherefore, in order that all doubt may be removed regarding a matter of great importance, a matter which pertains to the Church's divine constitution itself, in virtue of my ministry of confirming the brethren, I declare that the Church has no authority whatsoever to confer priestly ordination on women and that this judgment is to be definitively held by all the Church's faithful."

I have no problem with Pope John Paul II decision not to ordain women that was his right to do so. I disagree with his believing that all Catholics must agree with him and not question what he said.

There are many people in the Catholic Church that pray and read the Bible as much as the hierarchy of the church. I also believe God speaks to everyone’s heart. In fact, I know many priests that the only time they read the Bible is during the Mass. I know many priests that do not have any personal prayer time. I know many priests that do not consult God on personal or professional decisions.

The thought that theologians know more about what God wants than devoted Christians is arrogant to me. One of the problems within our church is that many of the theologians think that seminary training makes them experts in all things pertaining to God. It certainly does not make all of them good preachers. It seems some priest think wearing the right vestments and clerical clothes make them more important than the laity in the church. They think because they are the only ones that can administer the sacraments the church cannot function without them. This alone is a good reason for ordaining women.

I do not think Pope John Paul II was a chauvinist, but I do think he relied too much on church traditions, that were established by men, and considered the personal feelings of Cardinals and Bishops too much when making his decisions.

Relying on church traditions have value, but they can also be abused and prevent needed reform. One of the main differences between Protestants and Catholics is Protestants rely more on the Bible than traditions and it seems Catholics often rely more on traditions.

Many traditionalist Catholics disliked Pope John Paul II because they felt he was "too liberal". Many of us who loved Pope John Paul II thought he would bring more needed changes to the church, but he did not because he was too conservative in many areas and unlike Pope Francis did not have the personality to stand up to those who opposed his ideas.

 I do not think his position on ordination of women was about discriminating against women or that women did not have the abilities needed to be a priest, but rather he thought he was following God's desire for the Church and feared it would cause too much division in the Catholic Church. Some in the church will argue he was proven right because Methodist, Anglican and Episcopal ordained women and it caused their attendance to decrease and caused divisions in their denominations.

Change regardless if it is good or bad always brings division and causes some to leave that cannot adapt. All denominations, including Catholic, have suffered losses in attendance. This is due more to changes in society than anything else. We would suffer more loss in attendance if not for Second and Third World countries where “OBLIGATED ATTENDANCE” is still taken seriously. In addition our membership grows every time we baptize an infant.  

There are less conservative people who will argue that Pope John Paul II did not declare for the church to not ordain women from the 'Chair of Peter', therefore the statement was not "infallibly" made. I am one of them. He left the door open for change someday.

The ultra-conservatives in the Catholic Church will argue that those of us who make the “infallibly” claim are the same ones who want same sex marriage and contraception use approved by the pope. They are correct when they accuse me of wanting to broaden contraceptive rights. I am for non-abortive artificial contraception. I think God is more pleased with people who use contraception, instead of bringing children into the world they cannot properly educate, clothe, feed and provide medical care for. I believe each denomination has the right to decide if they will perform or not perform same sex marriages. I believe the government should provide some type of protection for those in same sex relationships that want to commit to one another and have the same protection as those in opposite sex relationships have. I do not want to call it “marriage” because I do respect the tradition of “marriage”.

I think Jesus Christ allowed Himself to be influenced by traditions when it came to some issues pertaining to male and female. One cannot deny that Jesus Christ gave power to women that at the time were unheard of. I know that Jesus Christ broke many Jewish traditions, but that does not mean He did not choose a female to be one of the twelve disciples because He did not believe women were qualified to have the title disciple or that He was sending us a message in 2015 that women should not be ordained. I think He did not bestow the title of Disciple on a female follower because it was a tradition that He knew would make His ministry and the ministry of His follower even more difficult than it was.

Those that argue Jesus was a tradition breaker and would have given the title of Disciple to a female if it was acceptable to His Father will say He broke other traditions pertaining to women such as healing a woman on the Sabbath; speaking with the Samaritan woman and freeing the woman caught in adultery from being stoned. They will argue that Jesus was clearly not afraid to break the traditions of His time; therefore if it was okay to ordain women today He would have designated a female disciple. It is true that Jesus was not afraid to break Jewish traditions, but He also honored many Jewish traditions in order not to offend the Jewish leaders unnecessarily. He knew to pick and choose the battles He wanted to encounter.

Ultra-conservatives within the Catholic Church will argue we have to consider that there were women performing similar roles to a priest in other religions at the time of Jesus, therefore it is inaccurate to say there was no historical precedence for women being priest. There were not women performing priestly duties in the JEWISH religion. The women performing priestly duties were priestesses in PAGAN religions. The Jewish leaders bitterly opposed the priestesses and I am sure they would have accused Jesus of starting a pagan religion if He would have suggested women priest or women disciples. It would have created an unnecessary battle for Jesus and His followers to fight.

Ultra-conservatives will say scripture refers to the Bride and Bridegroom when speaking of the relationship between Christ and the church. I certainly agree with that, but scripture is talking about JESUS CHRIST relationship with the CHURCH not a pope, cardinal, bishop or priest relationship with the church. Are they trying to say that a pope, cardinal, bishop or priest has the SAME relationship with the church as Jesus Christ?

Their argument is the priest represents Christ "In persona Christi" when administering the Sacraments, and as such is the groom of the church and must be male. In persona Christi is a Latin phrase meaning "in the person of Christ" a man-made theological concept, not a Biblical concept and refers to the action of a bishop or priest while celebrating a sacrament.

The priest acts in the person of Christ in the pronouncing of the words of the sacramental rite. There are essential moments in the rites where the priest's words and gestures confect the sacrament, change bread/wine to body/blood. I guess it really comes down to they believe men have certain mystical powers women do not have when it comes to saying ‘certain words’.

Ultra-conservatives will argue that Pope St. Gelasius (494 AD) wrote a letter of discipline to an area that was allowing women to serve at the altar. They will say it does not prove there was a historical precedent for female priest it only proves that some in the church were violating the rules of the church and they were wrong and just as Saint Paul did Pope St. Gelasius stepped in to correct mistakes in the administration of the Eucharist.

Ultra-conservatives put total faith in the magisterium which gives the pope, cardinals and bishops the authority to lay down what is the authentic teaching of the Church. I believe unity is not only important, but is essential, but unity dictated by a few in the hierarchy of the church without the opportunity for the laity to offer opposing views can also be dangerous. In essences it requires Catholics to turn their brains off when it comes to matters of the church, religion, teachings, etc., and accept the words of the hierarchy to be the only truth.

It could be interpreted by non-Catholics or Catholics who are not willing to turn their God given brain off that the hierarchy of the Catholic Church is trying to say God only speaks to them. According to the church hierarchy if they say God does not want women to be ordained the matter is not open for discussion. I think it also says volumes about the hierarchy of the church wanting to guarantee that males control the church.

I would say most Catholics do not know that women with theology degrees are now "Chaplains" in most Catholic high schools and universities. Ultra- conservatives argue the term "chaplain" can only be used for a priest, Canon Law 564-572. They also claim that some of these women are not being made to be extra careful to uphold the teachings of the Church the way the priest are.

Here are some of the arguments the ultra-conservatives use to try and get women chaplains removed from schools and universities – THEY TEACH: Scripture is not inerrant, and only parts of it are the true Words of God, it should be read with a critical eye; Many of the miracles can be explained in natural ways, like the miracle of the loaves came from people sharing what they already had; Purgatory is an invention of the Middle Ages to keep control of the masses and keep them obedient to the Church and make money; Contraception is good if sex outside of marriage is going to be practiced and total dependency on chastity among youth, due to peer pressure and hormones, is unrealistic in society today; The Magisterium is an "old boys club", not the institution put in place by Jesus to guard and direct the Church; Same sex attraction is very complicated and the Church should not make an absolute pronouncement that it is disordered to act on it; Confession is a good psychological cleansing, but that's about all it is. A priest isn't necessary to reconcile with God and Baptizing is a good tradition that fosters belonging, but it is not the means of salvation.

I have found male chaplains that teach and believe the same way the female chaplains do. There does not seem to be the same outcry against the male chaplains as it is against the female chaplains. Is it possibly a sexist thing? I have found many priest believe as the female and male chaplains do.

One ultra-conservative said this, “… my prayer is that one day the majority of women with theology degrees who work in high school chaplaincy offices will focus on teaching the Word of God, rather than challenging it. All the faithful women I know have absolutely no interest in challenging the Church teaching on a male priesthood.” Of course they don’t, because they are comfortable with being where they are in the church structure and have no desire to advance to a higher position within the church. I do not think these women chaplains are challenging the Word of God they are challenging the Word of Catholic men in authority.

Ultra-conservatives use the fact that the Catholic Church included in our Bible the book of "Judith", book of “Esther” and the book of “Ruth” as proof we do not discriminate against women. I really do not see the connection, but I suppose they do. They get really excited over the fact that Ruth wasn't even a Jew, yet she plays a key role in salvation history.

They even claim if the Catholic Church discriminated against women they would have rewritten the story of Mary – do they really believe we didn’t when most Catholics turn to Mary more than they do the Holy Spirit. I think we gave Mother Mary a role that God never intended her to have.

They think they have a real argument supporting the Catholic Churches refusal to ordain women by pointing out that the Catholic Church recognizes Martha, Mary Magdalene, Anna, Elizabeth and a dozen more women as a prophet. It would be hard not to recognize these women as prophets. I honestly do not see how recognizing a few women as prophets have anything to do with ordaining women.

Most ultra-conservatives put their hopes in Pope Benedict the XVI. They believed he would close all the doors that Pope John Paul II cracked open. I had one tell me that he bet I prayed every day that Benedict would die. I never hoped that and certainly never prayed that, but Benedict took care of the problem himself or divine province did when he retired.

I prefer to see qualified women ordained rather than see parishes closing because we do not have men to staff them and for some strange reason I think God prefers the same. The harvest potential is great, but there are not enough harvesters.